Truth, but that’s because Mary Jane Watson > Gwen Stacy.
Honestly if you think about it Spinneret could probably take down Spider-Gwen in battle too.
I don’t know about that, her abilities would be halved while Spider-Gwen should have the the full abilities.
Unless MJ siphons off more of Peter’s power.
Then again Gwen was nearly beaten by cop Frank and some baseball bats, so it seems the “Spider-God” wasn’t very kind to her.
It’d probably be kinda interesting to make a respect thread for Spinneret’s feats. Only real problem you’d never know how much power she’s draining from Pete on standard. Those kinds of things are bad for threads.
Venom MJ would own Spider-Gwen or Gwenom with ease and post-Time Skip MJ probably takes it due to experience.
However pre-Venom MJ vs Spider-Gwen would depend upon how her suit works.
Does it work by giving her half of Peter’s powers?
Less than half?
Or does it literally give him some of Peter’s powers as Peter himself has developed them.
That is to say does MJ have half the proportional strength of a spider and that strength is dependent upon her own body proportions.
Or does she siphon off Peter’s literal strength so she’s getting half the super strength of the guy who could kick Fire Lord’s ass.
Because if it’s the latter MJ takes it.
As you said Spider-Gwen struggled against Punisher.
But even if MJ had HALF of Peter’s powers you’d have to factor in Peter’s feats up until at least like 1994 at which point even with half of that power MJ could easily defeat Spider-Gwen.
Like pre-1994 Peter was able to smack down the Rhino who’s battled the Hulk.
Even at half strength that’s going to make her ridiculously powerful.
Combine that with seeing Peter in action so often and knowing his moves being able to help close the gap in their experiences, her own fighting skills as a bad ass normal
I never really expected to get a response. But thanks, love your work. ^^
I didn’t consider her with Venom, mostly because I’d forgotten that story-line. And you tend to debate using the current version of that character, which would be after the unfortunate time-skip.
Doesn’t Spider-Gwen have a symbiote now, or something? I try to avoid that series like a plague so I’m not sure. I assume that if you did want to MJ witht he symbiote the far comparison would be Gwenom.
I’m not sure how much wait I’d give to experience ordinarily, but given Spider-Gwen is Spider-Gwen it’d likely be more than enough.
I have no idea how it works, it’s not something they’ve ever bothered to explain. As I said it makes scaling Peter and MJ in RYV very difficult because it’s hard to tell how disadvantaged either of them is at any given moment.
As far as then be proportional, I’d say they definitely aren’t. They’re entirely dependent on Pete.
I’ve always just assumed it was half, as we can see clear examples when she takes more than “her share”, significantly weakening Peter.
Such as when they were fighting Mysterio.
Which makes sense, considering MJ is just using adapted Regent Tech.
I don’t really count Firelord, Peter has some insane high ends. I mean when you’re company mascot, it’s going to happen. Can’t have him looking bad.
Well yes, Spider-Gwen is definitely one of the weaker Spider-People of current comics. Even though I think her official Marvel Bio has her as “10 tonner” (Pete’s standard) as opposed to the typical 5 given to female Spiders.
Just more reasons feats > statements.
(And now that you point it out, giving her the same stats as Pete isn’t proportional as Pete is approximately 6 inches taller and weighs 35 pounds more than Gwen does.)
In general she seems to struggle with peak humans, something that would be a joke to Pete.
I know she and Matt haven’t thrown down yet, but I imagine it’ll be the fight of her life. Cementing her on the lower end.
I think it’s probably fair to include at least up to the 90′s, even though it’s hard to know where the timeline “diverged”, we saw that Harry is still dead, at minimum SSM #200 happened, ad we know from the X-Men crossover issues that the CW almost happened.
If we assume the unfortunate events with May still occurred, then we could probably use Pete’s feats from even up to OMD.
But back to the point, even at half with Peter’s abilities she should have Gwen out-classed in every stage from what I recall (when I still get through her series), given all her poor performances I think even a third would be sufficient.
I’m not sure how much of Peter’s movement can be attributed to experience (aside from web-swinging) but she’d certainly have a better basis than Gwen has ever had (unless I consider her “training” from Noir).
It’s really only debatable from a stat standpoint, as in hard stats Gwen is likely higher.
However taking into account feats, it’s easily MJ. Her feats in RYV are probably enough.
Even this, I can’t see Spider-Gwen pulling off. But then again, haven’t seen anything from her as Gwenom.
Though like I mentioned before, a Spinneret respect thread would be pretty cool.
It’s definitely on my to-do list. But yeah, all things consider MJ probably wins. And when it’s a comparison between Gwen and MJ, not an unsurprising result.
Initially I was just thinking of strictly as a “stat v stat”, but looking at it through feats it’s just not even close.
Ok so it really pisses me off when people make fanfic or edits with tom holland as spidey,but a white girl with dyed bright red hair mj in the homecoming era. ugh wtf
I’m trying to understand what I just read.
So we’re not allowed to fancast Mary Jane and ship her with MCU Spidey anymore because Homecoming creators decided to put him with a random girl and give her MJ acronym. They even admitted they did it for fun, not because Michelle is new version of actual MJ.
I won’t even comment on a fact that OP has mainly a problem with a skin color.
Just wanna say…shouldn’t people be allowed to do what they want in their own damn fanfiction?
Like seriously if it’s okay to have the Hagrid and Hedwig fuck (yes that really exists) surely people can write fics about AU versions of already AU characters anyway.
Mary Jane isn’t Michelle. We could’ve liked Zendaya as Mary Jane fine if she actually PLAYED Mary Jane, the bubbly social party girl, nevermind the race , but Marvel did whatever they felt like with her, giving her a totally different personality and name. That’s an OC at this point. we feel ripped off considering they were pretty accurate to the comics with other characters but screwed our girl.
I hate how us comic!MJ fans can’t talk about it without being labelled “bigots”. Most of us also don’t like Kristen Dunst’s interpretation of her, so what’s your excuse there?
I mean I dislike Dunst as an adaptation of MJ because she only has a few broad traits and that’s it, but I don’t even hate her AS an OC.
But she is just representative of the problem.
Live action Spider-Man adaptations seem pathologically afraid of giving us anything OTHER than OCs for love interests.
Dunst MJ. Basically an OC with some broad strokes from 616 MJ along with being a high school contemporary of Peter’s like Ult MJ and Liz allan. Has a legitimately good character arc unto herself using MJ’s chosen profession but has none of her personality. Even her abusive Dad and home life serves doesn’t motivate her in the same way. Also she gets taken to a bridge by Norman and is the first love/girlfriend like Gwen and Betty.
Stone Gwen: Basically its Emma Stone. No seriously it’s the actress Emma Stone’s exact personality but imagine she was called Gwen Stacy, was Spider-Man’s first love, had a police officer who died for a Dad and then had like House of M Gwen Stacy’s flanderized science skills combined with everything else from Ultimate Mary Jane…before she is killed by a Goblin.
Jones Felicia: Imagine an assistant to Harry Osborn and now imagine she has Black Cat’s real name and literally nothing else.
Harrier Liz Allan: Comparatively the least bad. Liz at least went to high school with Peter, did like him and parted sorrowfully from him when she left school. But she also wasn’t the Vulture’s daughter or a science nerd.
Zendaya MJ: Daria mixed with
Ally Sheedy’s character from Breakfast Club who…maybe knows Peter is Spider-Man like from Parallel Lives?
1970s Nick Hammond Spider-Man TV show: Multiple OC love interests who didn’t really stick around but at least they never pretended they were anything other than OCs.
Everyone from the Japanese Spider-Man TV show that later inspired Power Rangers
Like how the fuck out of all these did Bryce Dallas Howard as Gwen Stacy wind up the most faithful?
A blonde woman called Gwen Stacy with an elderly police captain for a Dad who likes Peter and is in his college science classes. She didn’t like Spidey much and she didn’t date Eddie Brock but apart from that she wasn’t anything like an OC.
She also wasn’t someone you wished fell of a bridge any time soon either.
Well you know in adaptations some things have to change to better fit a film audience’s tastes. Some times it’s good, other times it doesn’t make sense.
Dunst’s MJ made her seem too selfish and dependent, with none of MJ’s classic pizzaz, while Emma Gwen was pretty much the Gifted Child of her movie series.
Although I think, despite the fanboys screeching, that classic comic book MJ can be adapted into the screen. Like, she’s very modern and contemporary, that I feel anybody could appreciate her, even audiences of 2018. She’s funny, she’s flirty, she’s unashamed of her femininity and sexuality, and she’s passionate and determined about her goals and her dreams. She calls Peter out on his crap when he’s bullshitting around, but she also helps him when he’s at his lowest. She overcame abuse on her own. She’s doesn’t need to don a costume or be a scientist to be strong. People would crush on her and at the same time wish to BE like her. She just oozes confidence without being a jerk (Hello Tony).
The people who think she’s just a boring ol’ damsel in distress, a selfish nagging wife, or a brainless bimbo and feel she has to be “changed” into a Lois Lane or Daria rip-off to be more “progressive” obviously don’t get her. (And like I said, slight misogyny on part of these people- assuming women who like fashion and beauty are somehow “less” important than nerds or geeks? Nevermind fandom darling geekette Gwen was also pretty feminine…)
I hear that because you could never faithfully render comic Gwen and comic Eddie Brock whilst a good character probably needs streamlining for wider/child audiences.
At the same time though if you are going to take an iconic character like MJ who’s the Lois Lane of Spider-Man’s series at least do her broadly speaking right and not have superficial traits from her.
I don’t think Dunst’s MJ was selfish or too dependent tbh. She was just dealing with some troubling serious issues. In a weird way Raimi invented the best OC Spider-Man love interest with his version of MJ since like comic book Felicia.
Gail Simone herself argued MJ in the silver age was ahead of her time and it’s very, very true. Its weird Lee wrote her so well and then wrote Gwen so bad.
What’s paricularly BS about how fans put Gwen over Mj because of her academics don’t even know that
a) If you study to be an actor you OBVIOUSLY aren’t stupid because you need to get the human mind in order to inhabit it. People don’t give english lit students shit for being shallow or not academic enough but many of the skills to be a decent literary annalist crossover into being a good actor and a good psychologist…speaking of which
b) MJ was a psych major which requires you to read…a lot…
c) Gwen in a Roy Thomas story (one Sony were considering adapting) went to the Savage Land for the express purpose of posing in a bikini. She was literally right there modelling and she did it before MJ ever did.
d) Gwen’s first ever scene literally introduces her by saying she was her high school beauty queen. Consequent issues at best merely show her in the same science classroom as Peter but the majority of her scenes on campus frame her within the context of being a sexy, popular and object of male affection. I’m not even saying that’s sinful I’m just saying it’s hypcritical to give MJ shit for the same thing when she wasn’t literally introduced to us as a beauty queen
Some people do think they will truly make Michelle Mary Jane,thanks to fan reactions… but can Marvel properly showcase a proper adaptation of Mary Jane in the current Films if it is Zendaya?
The fun party girl who hides a tormented past behind a fun and carefree persona. A girl who is strong and brave in the face of danger and is willing to assist Peter when trouble appears. A woman who dealt with her own horrors in life and chased her dreams no matter who stood against her.
Can wallflower Michelle become someone like that and how?
When she says “my friends call me MJ” and you know that’s bullshit because she doesn’t have any friends.
When your company remakes you to be a bratty woke hipster with no personality because “you’re not feminist enough” despite the fact you marched for women’s rights in the 70′s and owned your sexuality.
When Marvel sell’s your marriage to the devil because a married Spider-Man isn’t “relatable”.
I relate to Miguel O’Hara’s childhood on a personal level. I am an abuse survivor and I’m not afraid to admit that. I want a story where Miguel helps a child going though what he did as a kid and saving them from their abusive homes. Even if it sounds like a PSA or “after school special”, I know that a good writer can pull it off and I’d love to read it. I’d love to see Miguel, an abuse survivor, helping other abused kids. If there is a story like that already out there, please tell me.
When someone says Mary Jane loved Spider-Man and not Peter Parker
Dude Spider-Man fans are far from obsessed with a young Peter Parker. We want him to be OLDER not younger. MARVEL are obsessed with him being younger.
I mean I’m fine with Peter starting as a kid myself, my problem is Marvel’s seeming desire to infantilize him even as an adult to keep him as much of a “kid” as possible.
